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The USA's future is German?
by Mike Woitalla, November 16th, 2012 3:58AM

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TAGS:  germany, men's national team, youth boys

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By Mike Woitalla

Although just a friendly, that was an impressive result by Coach Jurgen Klinsmann’s USA, coming back twice to earn a 2-2 tie at Russia. Achieved without the USA’s two best players, Clint Dempsey and Landon Donovan.

Also remarkable about the game was that the USA fielded five German-born and -raised players. Not a couple, but five, including four starters – nearly half the lineup of field players.

The starters were Timmy Chandler (age 22), Danny Williams (23), Fabian Johnson (24) and Jermaine Jones (31). Terrence Boyd (21) was a late sub.

There’s nothing controversial about them being eligible to play for the USA. All are the sons of American fathers – U.S. servicemen who were stationed in Germany, which has hosted more than 10 million U.S. military personnel since 1950.

A few foreign products have boosted the U.S. national team in the past, notably German-born Tom Dooley, who starred for the USA at the 1994 World Cup, when the USA also fielded Netherlands-raised Earnie Stewart and South African Roy Wegerle under Coach Bora Milutinovic. But no other U.S. national team coach has since relied so heavily on players raised abroad as Klinsmann.

And besides the five German products who played on Wednesday, there was Mix Diskerud, scorer of the late equalizer, who was born and raised in Norway.

The U.S. national team should welcome any Americans no matter where they were raised if they are better than the talent being produced within U.S. shores. Yet there are questions to be asked when in the first 14 months of having a German coach at the helm the USA is banking on so many German products.

The scouring of German soccer fields for players of U.S. heritage did predate Klinsmann’s appointment. Former U.S. U-20 coach Thomas Rongen identified 400 teenagers with U.S. eligibility playing in foreign countries, including scores of Germans with American serviceman fathers. Jones and Chandler debuted for the USA under Klinsmann’s predecessor, Bob Bradley.

When Dooley, a Bundesliga champion, became a fixture on the U.S. national team two decades ago, his performances left no doubt that his talents exceeded those of U.S. products in his position. But none of the German products in the current squad has proved particularly brilliant. They have yet to bring something to the team that makes one think it will soon be playing a better quality of soccer than what we’ve seen from the USA under Klinsmann’s predecessors.

That doesn’t prove they aren’t better options for Klinsmann than the available homegrown talent. The German products who started against Russia are all regular starters in the Bundesliga, certainly one of the world’s most competitive leagues.

But in the years before Klinsmann’s appointment, we’ve seen the most ambitious efforts ever to improve player development in the USA. A full-time residency program for the U-17s, the U.S. Soccer Development Academy, a signficant increase in U.S. Soccer youth scouts and coaches, MLS mandating its clubs to create youth academies, the ever-expanding coaching education programs …

So when nearly half a U.S. lineup is comprised of foreign products, one is left to wonder what track American soccer is on.



50 comments
  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 9:16 a.m.
    Fact is that if these 5 players were given the opportunity to play for Germany they would not be wearing our colors. So that makes them second or even third tier German quality players. Are they better than what we have had? Maybe, but in my opinion, not a significant difference and have not yet shown to be it. The bigger question is and should be, are they better than what our homegrown talent? That's a defenite no. That is proven. This country is full of Hispanic American talent that soccer superior countries like Mexico are happy to tap into and aggressively scout. There was an American born player on the Mexican Olympic Gold Medalist team, for Christs sake!! There was an American born Goalie on the U17 Mexican Gold Medalist team as well. Mexican league and national team scouts are a constant presence in big and not so big events in USA. They don't seem to limit their search to Academy games like we seem to do in USA. These are homegrown players that are making a big impact on teams like Tigress, Xolos, Chivas, Pachuca, etc. The question now is, who is better? Gomez is a bench player for Santos and has shown to be one of the most solidly consistent forwards that USA has had in a while. He has in my opinion made a bigger impact on the USA team than any of those 5 mentioned above. So for heavens sake why are we not tapping intoall the Mexican league starters that are homegrown USA talent? What is this fixation with European players and style that we have when all to quietely Mexico is winning all of the Worlds most prestigious events with the help of our Homegrown talent? Are we waiting until they win the Men's World Cup to wake up to these facts?

  1. Walt Pericciuoli
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 10:22 a.m.
    I can't think that Klinsmann would not try to put out the best team he can and look for talent anywhere he can find it.He should not leave any stone unturned.The problem as I see it is,he does not see the talent under the stones in the USA or he is not being shown the stones at all. Either the talent is not there,or he is not getting good information from the current scouting and coaching systems in place.I believe the problem to be a combination of both.First as I've said many time,the system of instruction of our youth must change.Secondly,all the coaches,clubs and soccer people should be somehow connected to the system and not just the very expensive academy clubs.

  1. Roland Barral
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 11:01 a.m.
    The development of players in the United States has improved, but still has a long way to go. In my opinion, the greatest challenge facing the US develoment program is the lack of quality coaching at the youth level. While the situation has improved, educated and experienced coaches and trainers are still not the norm. The increases in club soccer team and academy teams has helped, but the fact remains that most US children are playing recreational soccer led by volunteer fathers with little to no knowledge of soccer. Moreover, at the high school level, soccer remains an afterthought. Coaching in high school is seen as an opportunity for teachers to get an extra stipend. Very few high school teams have professional trainers or coaches with any experience. For most, high school soccer is a "send the ball up mentality and try to beat a defender." High school teams are simply not instructed in fundamentals. It is going to take a major cultural change at all levels for US soccer to reach its potential. In the meantime, it is best to pursue multiple tracks -- continue to develop programs, while seeking out the best players wherever we can find them (in Germany or elsewhere).

  1. Roland Barral
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 11:04 a.m.
    Walt Pericciuoli's comments on the system of instruction in the US hit the nail on the head. We need major changes. We need to put the same effort into training our youth in soccer as we devote to baseball, football, and basketball.

  1. Daniel Clifton
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 11:11 a.m.
    All of the above comments are well thought out and I agree totally with all three. Obviously Klinsmann is German and therefore accounts for some of his fixation of German born players. I like what I have seen of Fabian Johnson and Terrance Boyd. I have not been impressed by Chandler. Jones has been extremely erratic and volatile at times. Williams has played well when he has been the holding midfielder. When he is playing the 4-3-3 he is lost. As Luis Arreola stated why aren't we finding the talented Hispanic American players, some of which Mexico is bringing into their national system. It would make more sense to be finding those talents than the European born players. These kids are right under our noses in our own country.

  1. Ric Fonseca
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 12:58 p.m.
    Gentlemen, thank you for your insightful comments suffice to say that I am in agreement. However, I am first puzzled why Mike Woitalla has decided to focus on Klinsmann, given his previous seemingly anti-Klinsmann themes, and now this one. BUT, I too have been wondering why a sudden increase of German American players in the USMNT while our OWN home-grown talent continues to get short shrift, be they Latino, Asian, African players. Note that I emphasize "home grown", i.e. players of immigrant parents BORN and RAISED in the US. Luis Arreola and Daniel Clifton put it very succinctly, brief and to the point, that they are right - and literally - UNDER our pinnochioesque noses.... and yet the so-called powers that be, and yes including Klinsmann, first gravitate to the European players. Now someone will write and say that Luis is race baiting, however, I wonder who will comment and say that the other comments above aren't doing likewise.

  1. Daniel Clifton
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 1:38 p.m.
    I don't know about a racial bias, but I do believe and it is obvious there has been over the years what I would call a cultural bias against hispanic kids. I was one of those parents twenty five years ago who basically got drafted into coaching recreational soccer because there was no one else to do it. I coached a number of very talented hispanic children. Ten years ago or so I remember a couple of those kids, one from El Salvador and the other from Ecuador went out for the local high school team and didn't make it. A year or two later the kid from El Salvador was good enough to get a try out with an El Salvadorian pro club team. These hispanic children could not play competitive soccer in my area (Charlotte, NC) because their parents couldn't pay for it. (I gave the Ecuadorian boy rides everywhere to play because his father was working in NY and his mother didn't have a car). That is the reality I saw. I couldn't understand how these two boys couldn't make the local high school team that was coached by a guy who had a rep as a good high school coach. The El Salvadorian boy learned his skills by playing in the back yard with his brother, father, and uncles. To me that is the way to learn how to play. He and his brother were very skillful.

  1. Vic Flegel
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 3:03 p.m.
    I don't believe, the born and raised in Germany,Americans feel like Americans,when the wear the US jersey.It's just a prestigious feather in their cap.Look at Dooley and Ernie Stewart.They just came to play the games.After their career was over, they disappeared.I believe we have just as talented players who were raised in the USA.

  1. Alberto Mora
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 4:28 p.m.
    The US bigotry against the latino futbol will have us far away from a good US national men team, as someone said before if the "german" born players were so good why they are not in the German team? its a proven fact that a true american player won't be produced in 50 years or more. What a shame!!

  1. John Soares
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 5:35 p.m.
    With their jobs and reputation on the line I am confident that every coach fields what they believe is the "best" team available. Allowing for exceptions with friendlies when you (they) are trying to identify new and potential talent "therefore the value of friendlies". Most of the commentary (including the article) would be more acceptable and of greater value if ya'll left out words like "German based", "European Based", "Latino".... USA like all countries follow FIFA rules. Either change the rules or live with them. Any reference to nationality, EVEN IF unintentional comes across as bias and therefore losses much if not most of it's value. It's fine to have a preference or feel that "your" player deserves a better chance. However stick to his credentials and ability leave out his race, place of birth or where he plays. Now THAT would be an argument worth listening to!

  1. Ric Fonseca
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 7:05 p.m.
    John Soares: You couldn't have put it so clear and simple. For some reason even outside of sports, the country has always seemed wont to hyphenize a person's origins as you've illustrate. Unfortunately it is what it is and it will take several generations before we're all are considered part and parcel "true bonafide" members of American/US society in every single aspect of life within our borders. In the meantime we cannot afford, as a society, to bury our heads in the sand and "not see the trees for the forest," at least in the field of sport! thank you for your comment!

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 17, 2012 at 8 p.m.
    John, so how do we make our point exactly to the obvious without including those facts? Mexican league teams mostly scout Mexican American players. That's a fact. Our fixation with English mostly coaches is also a fact and hard to understand. What else should we say? Amerians feel they need Pro coaching from foreign countries. Is it not important to analize who we mostly pick to instruct our youth since when it comes to nationalities, they each usually carry different playing styles with very few exceptions? I disagree that their jobs depend on it. From what I have seen it didn't appear to be the case in Illinois. A great talent for one scout can be an OK player for another. Some love speed and size. Some love skill and talent. One gets picked over the other. What we must do when players we know make it in other countries and were never even looked at here is blog, publisize it as hard as possible to make people accountable by making fans aware of such oversights. I have not heard of anyone getting fired for overlooking a top talent in USA. Have you?

  1. Fernando Sanchez
    commented on: November 18, 2012 at 6:41 a.m.
    To make it short...The German American experiment have fail. My firsts evidence: Jamaica 2 USA 1...next...Guatemala 1 USA 1 so what good does it make for us that Germaine and Williams play abroad ? they look below average for our national team..

  1. Daniel Clifton
    commented on: November 18, 2012 at 7:49 a.m.
    I agree with Luis Arreola about the scouting in this country. That is one area that has to improve, but how. I think MLS is the key to that. The pay to play system leaves out a portion of kids whose parent just can't afford it. That somehow has to change in order to maximize finding talented children to develop. In the area I live in the fixation on English coeaches in the past has been detrimental.

  1. David Whitehouse
    commented on: November 18, 2012 at 2:42 p.m.
    You answered your own question in your article. The German players are playing in the Bundesliga and no doubt came up through the German Club System, where they learned to play with and against adults when they reached 17 or 18. Some years ago I had the pleasure of spending some time with the managing director of IFK Gothenburg, Tomas Wennerstrom. He emphasized that the hardest part in a player's professional development is going from the youth game to the adult game, where a 28 year old trying to hold on to a job will teach an upstart kid the realities of the Professional game. The Club could then pull the player back down to his age group to let him regain his confidence. Interestingly they had found that players who always had to battle for a spot as kids often did better than the starts who had never had to struggle before. Over the years IFK has survived by developing and selling players in Europe, as Swedish professional soccer does not have big money in it. This is what they do best. This transition to the adult game is missing almost completely in the US. Youth players usually go to College and play against other older adolescents, which is hardly the same, instead of learning to compete with adults. Very few of their clubs have an adult side of any description. The greatest omission in the USCF's plans has been the lack of a U21 age group in the academies. (It was NOT U14s!) This works extremely well in North America's other skill sport, Ice Hockey. Junior Hockey (U21) is the stepping stone to both the professional game and the college game. Most players play a year or two in the juniors before going to College or the Professional ranks. This is sorely needed in the US. It would also vastly improve the College game, as incoming players would often be 19 or 20, not 18. This would make the College game a bit more of a man's sport, as opposed to an older adolescent's sport. As an aside. the PDL is just a summer college league and is clearly not the answer. While the MLS Clubs do create this environment, there are very few of them, so they cannot create enough players to form a large domestic pool, which is the first step to having enough high level players. Until this happens our National Team coaches will look to Germany and Mexico and everywhere else in the worlds where young players have the chance to play with the adults.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 18, 2012 at 10:01 p.m.
    What would happen to USA basketball if we came up with a basketball academy system that told players that they could not compete in H.S. if they wanted to play with the very elite and they sold them the notion that this was the only way to get the opportunities they seek? Would we have a better pool of basketball players when this system would undoubtedly become a pay to play environment? Does this make any sense? Why is the U.S.S.F. giving the Academy system so much credebility when they have not yet earned it and very very few charge so much to be part of? Why are rankings based, more than anything on wins and not players developed? Does the USSF nit know that most of the best players in most academies were developed less where and only recently recruited by these academies? I have her to know of a USSF academy that is rekniwn for its true development of players but all are being sold this way. Aren't these the questions we should be asking and demanding accountability?

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:32 a.m.
    Luis are you joking? Gomez made more of an impact than Fabian Johnson one of the best LB's in the Bundesliga? We are lucky to have them on the USMNT, all of them are playing in one of the best leagues in the world. Oh and there's more of them coming really soon like John Anthony Brooks who is one of the best U.S. CB prospects.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:35 a.m.
    Hey Daniel and Ric you guys do know that previous USMNT coaches have called in German American players right? Or did you guys just start watching the USMNT last year?

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:37 a.m.
    Hey Vic yourself just wrong.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:38 a.m.
    you're*

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:41 a.m.
    Hey looks it's Fernando Sanchez the troll! Go root for Panama we don't need bigoted ignorant people like you rooting for the USMNT.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:43 a.m.
    Well said David Whitehouse!

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 8:05 a.m.
    Lakes, why would we root for Panama? What makes us bigots?Whiehouse did make a great statement. Mexico league teams do the same though. We have always had great athletes on our usmnt. What we are missing is great technical players. They are right under our nose? Check these facts. Soccer is the number one sport in Mexico, along with every country south of Usa which means thatvmost people play it. Their pro and national teams have a great pool in their counties but still find the time to scout USA for our homegrown talent that we seem to not really pursue. Don't you see something wrong with that picture? People like Lake herez, are too comfortable calling us bigots but say nothing of the fact that these German based players are born and raised in Germany and given the opportunity would undoubtedly pick Germany over USA national te am. Is that national pride? Who is the bigot now lakes? What would you think if USA went to Mexico and brought 5-6 Mexico born and raised players into USA? Mexico has a much better team than USA for years to come and look here for talent. Not Germany or anywhere else. USA has this talent here but goes to Germany to improve their pool. Does that make sense? I don't think so.

  1. Peter Weber
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 8:14 a.m.
    Klinsmann is faced with fielding the most competitive team he can, and as quickly as possible. He will naturally rely on his experience with the European systems and the Bundesliga in particular. It is one of the top leagues in the world, so this should not be dismissed just because it is German. This is also what made him attractive to soccer USA in the first place. Once he gets the feel for the talent available in the USA, and if it is better, he will surely avail himself of it. He does want to win, after all. A discussion of whether the named players above, Timmy Chandler, Danny Williams, Fabian Johnson,Jermaine Jones, and Terrence Boyd are the best available needs to be completed by naming better alternatives, rather than just hypothesizing that they exist.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 4:40 p.m.
    Good points Pete but I am not questioning what Kline must or must not do to get the results he needs now or his natural inclination towards his own nationality. My point is why overall as a country we continue to look to the English style of play as an example of how we want to learn the game? The English influence is very much there in the pay to play system thatgoverns our Usmnt feeder programs. Meanwhile the more technical teams/players are being overlooked because they don't have the "Academy" status. Lets hire the coaches /scouts that truly understand the real soccer culture in USA so we can show the world our homegrowns are the real deal.

  1. mike renshaw
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 7:53 p.m.
    Most american players do NOT have sufficient "game sense" to compete with the top level players from other countries. These US players simply do not watch enough top class soccer, either live or on tv, to truly understand just how this game is supposed to be played. In addition they are taught by rote how to play this game, spend too much time travelling back and forth to these self proclaimed "elite" clubs "practices"...much of which are spent doing "fitness" work at the expense of actually touchinhg/playing with a soccer ball.

  1. Pamela Oliver
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 8:14 p.m.
    Good point about the Academies, Luis. We need to look "deeper" than the Academies for our talent. It's there...

  1. Karl Ortmertl
    commented on: November 19, 2012 at 8:50 p.m.
    I think a big part of it was that the match was played in Russia. Germany is just a stone's throw from there and was convenient. Out of the five, the two that will really help us are Johnson and, hopefully, Chandler. We're woefully short on defenders. Boyd, Jones and Williams are nothing but subs for us in my book. I don't think they start if the match isn't played in Russia. We've got much better offensive talent than those three with the likes of Donovan, Dempsey, Altidore, Bradley, Gomez, Holden (if he ever gets healthy) and Torres.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 20, 2012 at 3:11 a.m.
    Luis your reading comprehension is poor I was talking to Fernando Sanchez who is a troll who leaves ignorant comments in soccer websites like mlssoccer.com. It's great that we have these German American players who are playing regularly in one of the best leagues in the world, with the recent additions of Danny Williams, Fabian Johnson, Timothy Chandler and the improvement Michael Bradley has had in the past year who has become one of our best players we can keep beating Mexico.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 20, 2012 at 3:16 a.m.
    Hey Karl I think Jose Torres ran out of opportunities with the USMNT, Kljestan and Mix Diskerud are better options IMO. Also Williams is still the #6 because Edu hasn't gotten any PT with Stoke.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 20, 2012 at 3:19 a.m.
    Well said Peter Weber!

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 20, 2012 at 11:59 a.m.
    Peter,hypothesizing? They very much exist and the proof is in the birth certificates that these players have and the improtant competitions that Mexico is winning with them. Some posts on this column are a great example of our blind trust in the European influence in USA. German born players, USA surely not 1st option to play for, not good enough to play for Germany National Team, no questions asked, no doubts, no national pride uproar. I can only imagine what these same people would post had these 5 German players been Mexican Born. Mexico has proven in the last 5 or so years to be a top World Soccer Country but our fascination with Euro soccer is too strong and unmerited. Let's show some more pride in our American Born players by scouting them relentlessly and keeping them here isntead of conforming to being option 2 for these other players. That would be true National Pride.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 20, 2012 at 12:06 p.m.
    Do you Sincerely believe we will ever win a U17 World Cup or an Olympic Gold Medal with our current scouting and player identification system ? How can anyone factually say we are not developing great soccer players when you have a noticabaly stronger Soccer country, Mexico, aggressively scouting our players ?

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 21, 2012 at 12:51 p.m.
    Hey Luis if Mexico has been a top soccer country in the last 5 years than why didn't they advance out of the round of 16 in the 2010 WC? Nobody cares if they win the U17 WC this isn't Sesame Street it's all about the senior National team. Also blind trust in the European influence? USA not the 1st option for the German Americans? This is where your Mexican bias is showing! Just look at Edgar Castillo, Jose Torres and Joe Corona all of them wanted to play for Mexico but weren't good enough so they chose the United States.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 21, 2012 at 1:03 p.m.
    Also who cares if Mexico is scouting for players here in the US? It's only few of them and they want to play for El Tri. The future looks good for the USMNT IMO our golden generation of players will come by the 2018/2022 WC. Jurgen Klinsmann, Claudio Reyna and Hugo Perez are doing a very good job fixing our youth system.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 21, 2012 at 1:15 p.m.
    Show some pride in our American born players instead of being option 2 for these other players? Hey bigot these other players are the sons of American military men. If the American born players are good then of course they should play no once is questioning that but which American born player is a better left back than Fabian Johnson? Who is a better right back than Timothy Chandler besides Steve Cherundolo? Who is a better box to box midfielder than Jermanine Jones besides Michael Bradley? All of our players who play for the USMNT are real Americans.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 22, 2012 at 1:40 p.m.
    Sesame street? Who cares about U17 W.C.? Your mentality is exactly why it will be impossible to ever win a world cup if it is what prevails as a general feeling in USA. Most countries scout the best young talent for these young World Cups and Olympics to further enhance their development by seeing how they compete on a world stage where there is no more important competition for than than those very ones you call sesame street. There are also many scouts of the very best clubs in Europe present at these events. They must see something that you don't. You must think that USA will win a World Cup at a Senior without proving to be good at the younger levels huh? So according to ykh there is no need for these younger world events to find, develop and sepetate the very best talent. Mexico will most defenitely be a favorite to make it to Semi in Seniors world cup and all the way with U23s Gold Medalists for years to come.

  1. I w Nowozeniuk
    commented on: November 24, 2012 at 7:44 p.m.
    One should not label USMNT players, they either have the mix to be successful at the WC level or not. Bottom line is we are thin on players that can execute and make the right decisions when they matter.

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: November 27, 2012 at 2:37 a.m.
    Hey Luis you think it's all about the U17 and U20 just look at Nigeria they have had a lot of success at the youth level but are mediocre in the senior level. Also you do know that American players take more time to develop? Also Mexico are nowhere close to being favorites to reach the World Cup semifinal, the favorites are Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy and France so go take your Mexican bias elsewhere. The USA will probably have it's golden generation in the 2018-2022 WC cycle and will probably become a soccer world power in 10-15 years.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: November 27, 2012 at 5:32 p.m.
    Lakes, are you really that naive? Look at Brazil, Argentina, Spain, Germany, France who are always favorites for these events and seem to be always in the semi and quarterfinals and always seem to have many of their players scouted at these very events. Look at That!!! Only Americans like to argue about Nigeria but conveneitly ignore these other countries. That's the problem. Excuses. I strongly beleive that Mexico has a good chance of making Semi's in 2014 and even better in 2018. You think it's a coincidence that Mexico has won it all at U17, U20, U23 levels. You think that Usa will win it Senior's World Cup without even getting out of group play at these same age groups. That's saids it all. Instead of trying to make a stupid point with Nigeria why dont you tell me what Country has consistently performed well at Senior's W.C. without consistently winning at the youth levels first ? Also, can you explain why Americans take more time to develop in soccer? Why isnt it the same for basketball?

  1. John Lakes
    commented on: December 1, 2012 at 6:20 a.m.
    Luis you're a dumbass you lost all credibility when you said Gomez has made more of an impact than any of the German Americans. Like I said no one gives a crap about Youth tournaments you know why? Because very few of the players make it to the pro level. The reason Americans take more time to develop is because they don't play as much as the other countries like in Europe and South America, they get very few playing time while in High School and College (if they dont go pro right away) just look at Clint Dempsey and Geoff Cameron. Don't worry about the U.S. Youth system we are in good hands under Klinsmann, Reyna and Perez making the necessary improvements. Go ahead and think that Mexico will reach the Seminfinals in 2014 and even further in 2018, they will get eliminated again and again in the Round of 16 and you will be disappointed again and again.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: December 3, 2012 at 11:15 p.m.
    Lakes, my arrogantly ignorant friend, you are the problem with development in USA. Your mentality. So Americans take longer to develop because we dont play as much as other countries? So they suddenly just catch up after college or what? Wow, you are dumb. I guess Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Spain see the importance of competing in U17, U20 & Olympics and coincidentally perform as strong at the men's side but USA will do it differently by catching up after college. Great analogy Lakes but I think my opinion makes a little more sense to most of the world. Lets make a bet. With the current development and scouting system in place for both countries, Mexico will advance farther than USA on the Men's side in World Cup for the next 10 years. I predict Mexico will make it to Quarters or Semi's in. 2014. Semis or Finals in 2018.

  1. John Lakers
    commented on: December 4, 2012 at 6:15 a.m.
    Smh Luis you're an ignorant dumbass like I said don't worry about the U.S we will be fine with the improvements that are being done by Jurgen Klinsmann, Claudio Reyna and Javier Perez. Also why would I make a bet with some stranger in the Internet? That's just dumb. Mexico in the semifinal or final in 2014 and 2018? lmao keep drinking that kool aid MexiTroll, the U.S. with it's top squad can beat Mexico heck they did it in your own backyard at the Azteca back in August and it was only the B team so go take a hike.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: December 4, 2012 at 12:48 p.m.
    Lakes, let me get this straight, U17, U20 World Cups and Olympics don't really matter but friendlies do?? Wow, you are a stupid, stupid man. USA also beat Italy and tied Russia. All 3 games they were clearly dominated by a 3 obviously superior teams. All 3 of these teams will beat USA 9 out of 10 times in competitions that actually matter, you know like World Cup Qualifiers, World Cups, Confederations. I want to see the USA succeed and that is why I worry but get extremely discouraged when having to explain common sense to people like you.

  1. John Lakers
    commented on: December 5, 2012 at 6:10 a.m.
    You are the true stupid man thinking those 3 teams will beat the U.S. 9 out of 10 times, they went into their own home and beat them fair and square. The U.S. Is not some weak third world country we are getting better every passing year, look back to the 2009 Confedeartions Cup when the U.S. beat #1 Spain one of the best teams of all time and almost beat Brazil in the final. We have talented kids developing in the U.S. and in big clubs in Europe like Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, Liverpool and more, I'm optimistic that the U.S. will be a world power in football in the next 10-15 years,

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: December 5, 2012 at 10:28 a.m.
    I am too but only if the scouting and top player identification drastically improve. I agree that we are producing top players but we are not identifying them and helping them get to the next level. Other countries like Mexico know this and are agreessively scouting our players because they see how we fail to do so adequately. The Confederation tournament was the height and culmination of our best generation and Us Soccer in general. Its been downhill from there. Mexico has invested greatly in player development with league rules that mandate playing minutes for homegrowns and accountabiljty. This showed in their 1st U17 World Cup win in 2007 with players like Dose Santos and Vela to name a few with quite a few of those making it in Europe and setting a new higher standard for results for that ge aeration. Coincidentally, thus very same generation is the one that kicked USA s ass in Gold Cup, are undefeated in Qualifying and helped win Olympics. They seem to be on the way up while USA who has nothing to show for at U17, U20 or U13 in the past or present seem to be on a decline. I don't like it but those are facts. Should a World Power be struggling so much with 3rd World Countries to get out of the 2nd round if qualifying? We are all worried about Donovan nit playing anymore and Howard getting old when we should be worried about seasoning our newcomers which is inevitable. Mexico plays its U23's at Qualifiers whenever they have a chance. All we currently have in our favor is to celebrate meaningless friendlies. I don't think that's a World Power mentality unless we are letting our arrogance be our downfall. 9 out of 10 is about right. I bet you anything that USA will not win one game vs Mexico in this final qualifying round and will play for a tie at home and will be lucky to get it. Is Mexico still considered 3rd world?

  1. John Lakers
    commented on: December 6, 2012 at 6:19 a.m.
    I agree that is what needs to be fixed about helping the kids reach the next level, we need a good reserve league to give the kids playing time to develop but the MLS owners aren't interested which is not good. Also I don't think anyone is celebrating these friendlies they are just friendlies showing that the U.S. can go to Italy, Russia and Mexico and beat them. Also Mexico beat the US in that 09 Gold Cup because we had none of our regulars who played in the Confederations Cup earlier that summer, it was just a team with all MLS players with Holden being the only good player on that emberassing team. Mexico will probably win at home in February and the U.S. will probably win when they play at home just like in the last cycle, you are underrating this team but we'll see what happens. I'm excited for this summer's Gold Cup where we will see both the U.S. and Mexico's B squads, we will probably see many of the talented U23 players that beat the U23 Mexico team like Joe Gyau, Mix Diskerud, Joe Corona, Freddy Adu and Juan Agudelo.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: December 6, 2012 at 8:17 a.m.
    I like your optimism but I can't give those friendlies much value. The U23's beating Mexico for example. Mexico won the Gold and USA didn't even get to go. How can we give these friendlies any stock? They are nothing more than an opportunity to look at different players in different schemes and risk losing to be assured of what foes and does not work. I saw all 3 of those games. All 3 of those countries dominated play. That's never a good thing. Russia pulled out most of its starters which gave USA the chance to tie. The USA always seem to show something extra at the end of games which is great but we seem to want to depend on that too much. Lately, in games thatcmatter we look lost and uninspired in games that natter vs Guatemala, Jamaica, etc. We should all be exited to see what new talent we have at Gold Cup but I don't see Mexico even coming close to losing to USA given their Gold Medal High. For qualifying USA will not beat Mexico. Just remember I told you so.

  1. John Lakers
    commented on: December 8, 2012 at 1:33 a.m.
    Russia didn't dominate the game IMO but I do agree that Mexico and Italy had more possession of the ball, Russia had all of their top players except for 2 the US also didn't have didn't have 2 of their best players like Dempsey and Donovan. The Gold Medal high can come back to bite them, Mexico is not Spain you are overrating them. Just remember I told you so.

  1. Luis Arreola
    commented on: December 8, 2012 at 2:14 p.m.
    Mexico is not Spain but they are in the top 10 in my opinion in the world with results in the last year and half. Top 15 no doubt. Once u23s get seasoned Mexico will be top 5. Giving what you think as meaningless competitions the value it truly has here is the USA as it does in the rest of the world.


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