Commentary
ECNL president Christian Lavers on clubs leaving the Girls DA, how U.S. Soccer should serve the youth game, and movement on the boys side
- by Mike Woitalla @MikeWoitalla, Mar 15, 2020
SOCCER AMERICA: First of all, can you update us on the ECNL's reaction to the Coronavirus pandemic?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: At this point, we have suspended all league programming until April 30, and canceled all our national events scheduled for April. Hopefully, the significant actions being taken by so many people and organizations will help reduce transmission, and during this period when the sport is basically shut down everyone will use common sense and follow the advice and direction of the health authorities.
SA: We learned last week that Real Colorado and the Dallas Texans are returning to the ECNL. Can we expect more clubs to leave the Girls DA and join the ECNL before the 2020-21 season kicks off?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: We are always evaluating the market, looking at the clubs interested in the league, and trying to create the best competition while balancing travel, number of games on the calendar, and other factors. The reality is that a lot of clubs want to be a part of the ECNL moving forward, and they are coming from a lot of different places, including the Girls DA.
SA: Ranking high among the absurdities in American youth soccer is that two strong clubs in the same area don't play each other because one is in the ECNL and one is in the Girls DA. When we spoke in September of 2019, you said "games between DA and ECNL clubs would be fantastic." What's the likelihood of that happening?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: It's important to know that the restriction on competition is not due to the ECNL, the restriction on competition comes from a federation rule that applies to DA teams. The ECNL does not prevent teams in our league from playing other teams, or playing in other tournaments.
Ultimately, I think U.S. Soccer's role in the youth space should be simple -- host one American championship event that takes the ECNL champion, the USYS champion, the NPL champion, and any other credible national league champion into one final event celebrating American soccer. That would be a tremendous way to celebrate having one American pyramid with multiple pathways, it would incentivize every organization to build the best possible environment and structure possible, and would celebrate diversity and innovation in philosophy, style, and every other way.
SA: How much dialogue has there been between U.S. Soccer and ECNL about the possibility of working together?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: With respect to the ECNL and the youth pathway, we have had some informal conversations with a few people involved in U.S. Soccer who are interested in trying to work together, but there has been no formal meeting or discussion on that topic with anyone in Chicago. The reality is that there hasn't been a formal conversation about collaborating or working together since the day the Girls DA was approved, and I think that is probably why the situation has reached the point it has today. We remain open to discussing ways to work together while respecting the different perspectives that people have, supporting evidence-based standards in development, making education more accessible, and opening a broader scouting network.
SA: Considering the defections from the Girls DA -- and that some of the replacement clubs have since been dropped -- do you think the Girls DA even has future?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: That is a question you would have to direct to U.S. Soccer. I think there are serious questions about the success of the platform, but there should definitely be more forward-looking questions asked on whether and why it is needed, whether the federation should be investing these funds in other areas like coaching education, and whether the federation should be focusing so much energy and resources on such a small portion of the youth game at the exclusion of the rest.
SA: What have been the main reasons girls clubs have cited for preferring the ECNL over the Girls DA?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: There really isn't one single reason. Every club has had a different combination of reasons that make them feel that the ECNL provides a better overall environment. I think flowing through it all though is that, fundamentally, the ECNL is an organization that is led by club directors who actually understand how decisions play out in the real world, how families and players react to different situations and what they are looking for in the youth experience, and what goes into running teams and clubs in the American landscape. The ECNL goal is to help clubs and coaches constantly get better and provide a better environment to develop better players -- but the philosophy and process that we use in accomplishing that is very different than the Development Academy.
SA: U.S. Soccer boasts that "all coaches in the DA are required to hold a minimum USSF B license." Can the Girls DA claim to have the "best coaches" as it implies in its "Coaching Standards" description?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: Absolutely not. And this isn't and shouldn't be a DA or ECNL issue. The fact is that there are very, very good coaches who do not have an "A" license or even a "D" license, and there are coaches that many clubs would not hire even though they have high license levels. On-going education is important, and licensing is certainly a demonstration of commitment to personal development and the ability to pass a specific set of evaluations at a specific point in time. However, licensing is not proof of competency in working with players and teams over the long-term, and having a higher license does not in any way mean a coach is better or more impactful than a coach with a lower license. We should all encourage coaches to pursue education and licensing, but we should not confuse what it means.
SA: If you were running U.S. Soccer, how would you steer its involvement in American girls youth soccer? Or youth soccer overall?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: I think the federation has tremendous opportunity and obligation to support the entire landscape and all members as an educational and collaboration-based organization. The federation should make coaching education far more accessible and far less expensive -- so that an exponentially higher number of coaches can get into and afford the "C", "B" and "A" licenses.
Right now, there simply isn’t capacity for enough coaches to take these licenses. Taking higher licenses should be something that is available to everyone who has passed the lower license, regardless of what else is in their CV. The scouting system should be wide open to find players from every league, every community, every background, and every pathway. That means expanding scouting massively with no care or concern about where players come from – in word and in action. Generally, the federation should not be running programs that compete with or duplicate what their members do. They should be supporting the programs of their members, creating additive development opportunities, providing education in all areas of the game, and helping members coordinate and collaborate with each other.
SA: In September 2019, I asked you about the Youth Task Force created in October 2018 by then U.S. Soccer president Carlos Cordeiro that was supposed to address the nation's "fragmented and fractured landscape." You said you were a member, on the "Standards and Certification" committee, and were "hopeful that there will be positive progress." Has there been any positive progress?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: I think that some of these committees have made progress, and others have pretty much stalled out. Our committee made unanimous recommendations several months ago for a collaborative process for setting standards across all federation members, that involved a process similar to how government regulations are passed – formal proposals, periods of public comment, opportunities for revision based on feedback, and required vetting and membership approval. I have not heard what happened to that proposal since then.
SA: The Boys DA has been around since 2007, and this year like the Girls DA is fielding fewer teams. How significant is the migration of Boys DA teams to the Boys ECNL? Is the Boys ECNL getting increasing interest from DA clubs to come over?
CHRISTIAN LAVERS: The ECNL Boys has made huge progress in its first three years, in size and scope of programming, but also in the quality of the play on the field. There have been a lot of clubs, more than a dozen in the past two years, that have joined ECNL Boys and dropped the DA U13 and U14 age groups because they feel like the ECNL Boys platform offers more for their players and teams. There are more clubs in that situation that have applied to the league and we are working through that process.
The ECNL Boys platform is for the grassroots soccer club, and we are providing a great environment for these clubs, coaches and players to improve and have a better experience. We are also creating a better and better pathway to college soccer for these players, and at the same time, for players with true professional potential, we are supporting pathways, scouting and relationships that help these players move on to professional clubs to continue their development. I think ECNL Boys will have a major impact on the youth male game in the coming years
For me, the most important point of this excellent interview is: "Generally, the federation should not be running programs that compete with or duplicate what their members do. They should be supporting the programs of their members, creating additive development opportunities, providing education in all areas of the game, and helping members coordinate and collaborate with each other."
Here is how I look at it. Two organizations vying for power thinking the other is not as capable in dealing with the youth development or whatever, who cares. Meanwhile, I say, meanwhile, they have contributed nothing to the development of the youth. The word "pick up-soccer" is nowhere to be found in their nomenclature,for they are clueless of this stage that is really necessary for the development of the youth;and this is why we have little or no progress in the past 50years in our youth player development except "HORIZONTALLY" (quantity-wise) but 'VERTICALLY" (quality-wise)
Here is a nice quote where these two organizations are at'<"We are always evaluating the market, looking at the clubs interested in the league, and trying to create the best competition while balancing travel, number of games on the calendar, and other factors.>" That' right " creating the BEST COMPETITION"....Yes, that's what they are concerned with not in creating better players.
It is the "for profit" mentality, Frank. ENCL's cutomers are not players or parents, but clubs. Slightly different focus, but same problem. Clubs focus on marketing to parents. The focus is not on player development.
This cultural problem extends to the parents also. We have a consumer mentality. Parents want to "buy" the best for their children. Soccer success (not even thinking in terms of player development) is seen as a consumer good to be purchased rather than as the result of effort. Unfortunately in our culture money has replaced work ethic.
Things were much different originally when we were an agrarian culture still largely engaged in a cashless economy rather than a totally cash-driven economy like today. This cultural difference still distinguishes industrial countries from some other countries. Nobody wants to work for success anymore. I am simplifying and generalizing here, but these are the trends. Parents who are elite athletes themselves are culturally different, and I think that explains why so many children of elite athletes become elite athletes themselves. Carli Lloyd and Messi are not the only examples of successful athletes with exceptional work ethic. Not at all.
I agree with Christian Lavers. Múltiple pathways and diversity of training methodology will make the cream rise to the top and strengthen the US National teams at every level. There is no better argument for it than the current state of the USSF programs, just like in Canada, this grandiose, expensive and exclusive idea, it's not working. Another gem: "Licencing is NO proof of competency". True statement.
Is the Academy structure looking out for the development of players, especially young players in U13 & U14? We all know the kid who was uncoordinated after a growth spurt who grew into a great Athlete. So ECNL provides alternatives so the young player still gets playing time, possibly on an alternative club team (The new ECNL Regional teams provide great expanded opportunities for development). The door is not closed on a 13 year old girl or boy that wants and needs to play.
The Academy substitution limitations, inability to play for alternative club teams to get additional playing time, the restrictions on participation in High School games throws cold water on development and the excitement for the game. There are Lots of quality people involved in the Academy clubs, just feel ECNL is still looking for the diamond in the rough not just the finished product.
Good interview. A lot of sensible points coming from Mr. Lavers. Need for a clear pyramid. Disruptive nature of DAs (to the pyramids locally). That the role of the federation is to facilitate, not operate, in particular, facilitate coaching learning and credentials. Unfortunately the girls DA's existense is strangely correlated with the fairness lawsuit, while the boys DA's creation is strangely corelated with the inception of the MLS. Before the DA situation is optimized (read - fazed out) we need resolution of the fairness issue - and - USSF has to decouple itself from MLS and SUM and begin to operate in the broader interest soccer in general and of youth soccer in particular where the DA has been nothing short of disruptive.
I agree that the DA has its flaws. Hoever, before the DA we did not have a way to really develop players or provide a focus on development and all of our best players went to college. Now we have more depth in devlopment, its more likely to see young players become pros now. Its time for teh next evolution of yoouth development (MLS leaving DA and forming a regional youth league, letting DA exist for independents, etc). However, I am happy to see what DA has done up until now.