Casey Short, Julie Ertz and Rachel Hill on Saturday's anthem ceremonies, hard conversations and faith

Chicago Red Stars players Casey Short and Rachel Hill, at the center of the emotional moment along with teammate Julie Ertz before their opening match at the NWSL Challenge Cup, issued statements via their Twitter accounts on Tuesday for what was going through their minds on Saturday night.

When the national anthem was played, Short and Ertz knelt along with rest of the Chicago starters and most of the Washington starters while Hill stood behind Short. Ertz embraced Short as her teammate on the U.S. national team cried.

After the match, which the Red Stars lost to Washington, 2-1, their coach, Rory Dames, said his players were emotionally spent even before the game began, but none of the three players in the emotional scene captured in images distributed around the world were made available to the media on the NWSL's Slack channel set up for reporters to ask virtual questions.

On Tuesday, Short tweeted an explanation on behalf of herself and Ertz, while Hill also issued a statement explaining her decision to stand. Both Short and Hill discussed the conversations they have been having in recent weeks.



In Short's case, she talked about the "hard conversations" she's been having with Ertz.

"The two of us have always set out to be our honest and true selves," she wrote, "but have struggled to find the 'right' thing to do in order to show our truth. We understand people are entitled to their opinions. Often these opinions are presented through the individual’s lens and do not accurately portray how the two of us truly feel."

Short said the conversations she has had with Hill "have been unapologetically authentic. I have to ask where my hope lies. It lies in my faith and those types of conversations that have been long overdue. The types of conversations that are raw and uncomfortable, that can lead to real impactful change."

Short said she and Ertz were touched by the support they received in response to Saturday's pre-game ceremonies.

"Currently, every time the national anthem is played, our country continues to become more and more divided on what the visual symbol of unity looks like," Short and Ertz said. "Through our continuous conversations we wanted to make sure that whatever we decided to do, it would not be an empty gesture. It would be a gesture that portrayed that we have heard those who needed to be heard, validated and loved. That moment during the anthem was difficult, very difficult. We are still searching but we are humbled by the outpouring of support."

Hill, who also evoked her faith, said she supported her teammates and the Black Lives Movement wholeheartedly and it was "way past due for me to be diligently anti-racist."



Hill, who was traded to Chicago from Orlando in January, chose to stand "because of what the flag inherently means to my military family members and me." At one point, she put her hand on Short's shoulder.

"Symbolically," she wrote, "I tried to show this with the placement of my hand on Casey’s shoulder and bowing my head. I struggled, but felt that these actions showed my truth, and in the end I wanted to remain true to myself."
34 comments about "Casey Short, Julie Ertz and Rachel Hill on Saturday's anthem ceremonies, hard conversations and faith".
  1. Santiago 1314, July 1, 2020 at 6:59 a.m.

    "Currently, every time the national anthem is played, our country continues to become more and more divided on what the visual symbol of unity looks like," Short and Ertz said. ...???
    And this is "A Good Thing".???
    But, I thought it wasn't a Protest against "The Flag".??? 


    A Flag that 360,222 (NyT) Union Soldiers Died Under, Fighting To Free Blacks From Slavery.!!!
    Why is the Flag The Target Of your Protest, Instead Of "The Police".???
    Maybe because without the Police, You couldn't open your Stadiums and play Games...
    You would be put OUT of a Job, Without the Police.
    So you find an inanimate "Symbol" Of Unity and Attack IT.!?!?!? Causing MORE Disunity.!!!
    Totally ILLOGICAL.!!!
    Totally MilLEMMINGalls...Follow the Herd Off The Cliff, To The End Of NWSL

  2. Mike Lynch replied, July 1, 2020 at 8:47 a.m.

    The NWSL is allowing political symbols and slogans to be worn and posted at venues (in violation of IFAB rules). 

    The national anthem is played to honor a country, which is why the PA announced at the NWSL games on Saturday, "Please stand and remove your hats for the playing of our national anthem."  If it is allowed by the NWSL to be played at their competitions for a different purpose, then the NWSL should not play it prior to their matches. Saturday's pregames were the event, not the competitive games played representing the first pro team sport league in the US to return to play. 

     
     

  3. Santiago 1314 replied, July 1, 2020 at 1:05 p.m.

    I would like to see the Players; Drape themselves in Flags, Then Kneel.... If it's NOT against the Flag, Then PROVE IT.!!! Each one, Put a Flag around you, Then Kneel... Foreigners can Drape their own Flag... I could accept that..... The Message is Worthy, The VISUAL of Kneeling Players, Draped in Flags would send a Positive Approach.!!!

  4. Carey Thompson, July 1, 2020 at 12:53 p.m.

    Maybe equal rights isn't political. Maybe wearing a poppy isn't political. Maybe putting Black Lives Matter on a Premier League jersey where about a third of the players are black isn't a political statement. But it is powerful, and overdue.

  5. Santiago 1314 replied, July 1, 2020 at 1:12 p.m.

    BLM-Inc., Is a Marxist Communist Led Movement

     Don't Believe Me, Go look for yourself, the UTuber is Black:  YoungRippa59
     Hope you didn't get Fooled into Donating.!!!  

    https://youtu.be/rdpIIiBe7Wc


    (NYPost 6-25-20) Patrisse Cullors "We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network." 
    “The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.


    She wrote a Book on it: "While promoting her book “When They Call You a Terrorist: A Black Lives Matter Memoir” in 2018, Cullors described her introduction to and support for Marxist ideology."

  6. Bob Ashpole replied, July 2, 2020 at 7:49 p.m.

    I grow tired of these misued labels. Marx criticized the economic system--capitalizm, not the government--democracy. His writings have also been very influential in all the social sciences. Marx, himself, wasn't a philosopical communist, although his writing heavily influenced the communists that followed him. 

    Finally the former Soviet Union was not really communist. It is no wonder we misue the terms today. On paper they were a democracy with a constitution patterned after our own and on paper they had a communist economy. On paper, but not in reality. They were politically and economically controlled by an oligarchy. That is neither democratic or communist. So I would rather just skip past all the labels and deal with the real issues facing this country, economic and political corrumption and explotation of the less powerful segments of society. The Trump Administration threatens our public health, our economy, our national security, and the rule of law. It isn't just me saying this. It is being said by former officials of both political parties.

  7. Wooden Ships replied, July 2, 2020 at 9:09 p.m.

    Couldn't disagree with you more Bob on this administration. 

  8. Ken Fadner replied, July 3, 2020 at 9:42 a.m.

    Agree with you Bob.

  9. frank schoon replied, July 3, 2020 at 11:41 a.m.

    Bob, We are so far apart on the scale of things , politically speaking. I've lived through 8 years of Obama, and I had a tough time holding down my puke everytime he opened his mouth but I realized, I guess, it was good for country to experience him. And just like now, I believe that this time around we need a Trump. I was for Trump the moment he announced his run for the presidency and I went to bed at 10pm election night thinking he was going to be president ,hands down, the next morning; for I had this inner feeling that ,cosmically/metaphysically speaking, this country could not be run by the Clintons and their mafia, no way....

    Trump, to me, represents everything that politics can't control, for he is financially independent, and therefore he can make decisions with little politically influence other than what he learns from his advisors and that upset those who like to control things. And  I appreciate the word "swamp" so much more now then ever, for he unsuspectically , has opened and drawn back the curtains and shown the 'puppet masters' from both parties. As a light is shined on all the 'political coackroaches' running around. Strangely enough this political 'swamp' didn't even appear on my screen, but became  ,loud and clear, the moment he became president. The political 'machinations' that have gone on right before and during Trump, as more of it comes out makes Watergate  seem like a friendly picnic....

    I once had a high opinion of our IRS, FBI, CIA, DOJ, bureaucrats thinking it was run  fair and neutral whoever the president is but no longer though and that is mainly due to the left/democrats. Too many bureaucrats ,sorry to say, tend to favor a certain political party over the other and that seems to be the case in education, media and Hollywood, all of which contributes to nurturing of a paranoia, of fear , along with their behavior which appears in all matter of social/political forms.
    I don't have that paranoia, for I think Trump is fantastic and is the person we need currently. I totally disagree on your characterization of what Trump represents, instead the opposite, which I find very interesting.  Yes, Obama made my stomach churn but at least those who didn't like him, like myself, accepted the process, and did not behave about our president like they do today, acting adolescent and as sore losers and as a result try to make it miserable for those who won...



  10. Bob Ashpole replied, July 3, 2020 at 12:50 p.m.

    You are correct we see things very differently, but perhaps not the way you think. 

    IMO life is not a zero sum game. Politics is not a zero sum game. Politics is negotiation and compromise for the good of all. There are no "sides" in politics. The "sides" and "losers/winners" are a creation of people who wish to prevent the political process of negotiation and compromise. Most of it is posturing for re-election. Good government is sacrificed to partisan politics. A large minority of the people either do not understand or else reject the the concepts of civic responsibility and community. 

    I have a lifetime of experience in negotiation and compromise. Egos and power games just get in the way. It is the same with politics.

    Things are so corrupted now that we cannot come together for the good of all during the worst pandemic in a 100 years. 

    IMO both parties have the same problems, focused on elections and partisan politics rather than good government.

  11. Santiago 1314 replied, July 4, 2020 at 11:57 p.m.

    @Bob, so the Mask finally Slips: TDS in full View: "The Trump Administration threatens our public health, our economy, our national security, and the rule of law..." ... Public Health.? Who shut down the Best Economy this Country has ever know.??? His Economy, That He Created, To stop the Spread of WuFlu, in Consultation with the Public Health Officials??? The current outbreak is due to the Protesters in the street, Not Trump... WuFlu was under control until June 1st Protests... 14 days later; you have Outbreaks from "Super Spreader" Protests...Virology 101... Threatens our National Interests, How??? ... By getting us out of all these Far Flung Military Engagements..???  How has Syria turned out.???. Trump was Correct there.!!! ...Rule of Law??? Which Law has he Broken.??? He fights thru the Court System; He Wins Some, He Loses Some, But He hasn't Gone against a SCOTUS Ruling ... I hope your TDS(Orange Man Bad) doesn't Mutate into TDVirus; which is Wanting to see America FAIL, Americans DIE, and Americans Lose Jobs, Just to make sure Trump doesn't get Re-Elected... The Coup D'SWAMP that was Initiated before he was even Elected, by The Members Of The Secret Society Of Insurance Underwriters Continues... They Hate him, They Fear him, because he Drains Their Corrupt Swamp Every Day... He is Cleaning Up The Corruption Because He doesn't need either Party or The Military Industrial Complex... He just needs to Win in the Electoral College, Like Last Time. Gonna be another long night for The Dems and Never Trumpers on Nov 3rd.!!!

  12. Lilliana Merklinger, July 1, 2020 at 1:07 p.m.

    This is sad . I stand as Rachel Hill does for our flag. The flag and this stance doesn't take into consideration the many soldiers who perished for many freedoms that our country has. Trying  to scrub history of our country is wrong because these things occurred and we should know about the bad and wrong things that occurred. As a naturalized citizen I am very proud to be an American, stand for the flag and national anthem to honor the many who have given the ultimate sacrifice and those who continue to serve because of the freedoms we have. Getting rid of history and saying it never happened is wrong. I can assure you when I took my citizenship exam we had many questions about our countries history. The sporting events that have folks kneeling during the national anthem should not be permitted to play it if they are not going to honor it properly. This is why I love the World Cup because it brings tears to my eyes when I see many countries stand and our proud sing their national anthems we as Americans can learn from this. I am not watching the NFL maybe changing the channel on NWSL and watch only leagues who honor their flag and national anthem. All of sudden these largely paid folks think there public opinions matter. 

  13. Luis Sagastume, July 1, 2020 at 1:55 p.m.

    As the former USAFA Soccer Coach, I am very proud of Rachel Hill for respecting her country's flag and national Anthem. These symbolic gestures are what unite all of us. I'm proud of being a naturalized citizen of the US and not political in this times of chaos. I beleive in Liberty and Justice for ALL!

  14. Santiago 1314 replied, July 1, 2020 at 11:32 p.m.

    @Luis - Air Force Academy was quite a Place to be Practicing at in June, When there Snow starts Falling... Hard to Breathe though.!!!

  15. William Hall, July 1, 2020 at 3:03 p.m.

    Maybe you're right Carey. Maybe some people like to make everything "political", race, age, religion, opinions.... things that our country has always claimed were inalianable rights, but have always only been for the priviaged few. I stopped singing the national anthem, saluting the flag and saying the pledge in 1962, when I was 12, because of questions in my mind about why one of my neighbors died in Vietnam. I don't condem those that do, nor do I want to prevent them from doing so, but it would be nice if they at least thought about it. National anthems should not be played for league matches or games, only for international competitions like the Olympics and World Cups when teams are representing their countries. Imagine, nothing to argue about ......

        Thank you Mr. Kennedy for the insightful article and thank you ladies for your thoughtfulness. 

  16. Ric Fonseca replied, July 1, 2020 at 9:55 p.m.

    Mr. Hall:  Also as a naturalized citizen, retired professor of college level history (U.S., Latin american, Chicano/Latinex, & Western Civilization,) I've often wondered why some members of the men/women's national teams don't even bother to sing the "Star Spangle Banner," and don't even bother to place their hand over their hearts?  Ever see this and wonder about it?  Also, Francis Scott Key drafter the national anthem during the Second War for Independence near the Baltimore area - and I later learned that the tune/music of the anthem is based on a British drinking song....  Anyone have any additional info about the origin of this anthem?

  17. John Polis, July 1, 2020 at 4:49 p.m.

    Co-opting the flag and or anthem for personal reasons is never a good idea. Both stand for so much to a very important part of society -- military families past and present. I can understand much less respect for the flag and our anthem these days, because there are way less people spending time in the military compared to my day. But not standing at attention with your hand over your heart is inherently disrespectful to military personnel and all their families. It may not seem like that big a deal to players these days, but it is. It's never changed from the past. When you show what military people see as disrespect, you are (whether you realize it or not) inflicting collateral damage to deceased veterans, living veterans and all their families. Why would anyone want to do this? Athletes need to rethink. Obviously Rachel Hill did. Protest. March. Carry a flag or sign. Chant. Sing songs. Whatever you want. Just stay away from the flag and the anthem because those who you disrespect by your actions are the people who died for your freedom to protest. 

  18. Peter Bechtold replied, July 1, 2020 at 9:04 p.m.

    My reply is not to anyone in particular, but to a widely held notion that kneeling is somehow connected to our troops. By what logic? When Colin Kaepernick of the NFL took a knee half a decade ago it was to protest police violence against African American males who were killed unarmed and the police were not even indicted. When soccer players in many countries take a knee before their matches, it is to show solidarity with BLM and with those grieving injustice. It has nothing whatsoever to do with flags or soldiers.(like my son who served for 20 years). Where is the logic?
    The awkwardness results from the odd habit of playing the national anthem before domestic sporting events which no other country does to my knowledge. I often wonder what goes through the minds of my Timbers when 9/10 of the starters are foreigners. This custom of playing the anthem did not exist when baseball, football, basketball were invented. I believe that it had something to do with cheering the troops returning from WW II, at a time when there were no foreigners playing professional sports in the USA. Another self inflicted wound.

  19. Santiago 1314 replied, July 1, 2020 at 10:03 p.m.

    @Peter... Having been at Many a Domestic Game in Foreign Countries, I agree, that it is Unnecessary to make a Tradition Of The National Anthem before Domestic games, especially MLS, with so many players being Extranjeros... Baseball.??? So many players from other Countries... But do you Condone US players kneeling before US National Team Games.???

  20. Ginger Peeler, July 1, 2020 at 10:29 p.m.

    I find it very difficult to realize so many of us seem to have been steeped in hatred. Please...Santi, and so many of you...this is not about disrespecting our country or our flag or our national anthem. If many of you are as old as your texts indicate, you, doubtlessly, remember the days of segregation. And, if you lived in the south, you know exactly how black people were treated because it was everywhere around you. At best, the blacks were 2nd class citizens.
    My dad retired as a bird colonel in the USAF (called the Army Air Corp during the war when I was born) after serving in the military for 30 years. During a lot of WW2, he was a flight instructor, training young pilots before dispatching them to the war front. Later, he was stationed in Texas. I went to grade school on the base. But, another stationing in another Texas community had me catching segregated busses to a segregated Junior High. That's when I first had white classmates telling me that black people were "subhuman". At that time the military had been integrated for years. Is any of this sparking a memory of the same kind of thing? 

  21. Ken Fadner replied, July 1, 2020 at 10:36 p.m.

    Agree with you Ginger

  22. Ginger Peeler, July 1, 2020 at 10:37 p.m.

    Before I go any farther. My dad taught me and my sister that the USA was the greatest place in the world to live. Come rain or come shine, we knew and learned that I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight for your right as an american citizen to voice your opinion! 

  23. Ginger Peeler, July 1, 2020 at 11:29 p.m.

    If our flag is allowed to touch the ground, it has been sullied. It is not honering the flag to wear a Starts  and Stripes cap, t-shirt  or other flag-based clothing. It's not illegal, but its's cheapening the meaning. Read the care and feeding of the flag rules. DON'T let athletes wrap up in one and sit on the ground OR take a flag from a bystander, wrap it around himself or herself and then run a victory lap. If it touches the ground, it has been disrespected! Yet, I see it during every Olympics.
    The United Kingdom and Budesliga joined in the Black Lives Matter. It's obviously not just a problem in the states. They take a moment of silence on the field. If everyone insists on standing for the StarSpangled Banner, do it and add another minute or two to quietly protest peacefully. Surly, if they can do it in Europe, we can do it, too. Actually, we should be leading it, but that's the problem. When I was a kid and my dad was stationed in Texas, very few people had that new wonder...television. All the kids would go to the base theater for the Saturday matinee. It would always start with the latest news. I remember the men in the white robes and dunce caps burning crosses. I'm pretty sure there were also news clips with hanging bodies. Again, it was the South, there was no national TV. We always had at least 2 animated cartoon shorts before the main feature (usually a Western). That was life as a white kid in the segregated south. 

  24. Santiago 1314 replied, July 2, 2020 at 12:25 a.m.

    Ginger, Should I be Held Culpbale for Someone else's action..???. Do I get "Credit" then, for my Yankee Relatives that Died Freeing The Slaves ... it was the Democrats, Founded by Slave Holder Pres. Jackson and Racist Pres. Wilson that propagated Slavery And Segragation... And Democrat Senators like Robert Byrd that used The KKK as the Military arm of the Democratic Party... Shouldn't that Political Party be #CancelCultured ... I keep asking the Same Question: Who is "Systematically Oppressing" Black People in USA 2020.???... Crickets.???... No Response...
    As for wearing Flag Apparel, If SCOTUS says I can Burn it, How can it be wrong to Wear it Proudly.???

  25. Ginger Peeler, July 2, 2020 at 12:02 a.m.

    Instead of getting upset over a symbol, isn't it time to concentrate on the Korean War Vets, Vietnam Vets, and survivors of our latest military battles?  These men have dedicated their lives and dedicated their heath for the USA. They thought they would be taken care of in a timely manor when they return stateside.  As a reward, they have had to wait days, weeks and even months for help for their medical conditions, resulting from the both physical and mental injury. These are men who thought we'd be taking care of them. Instead, they come home with "shell shock". Now it's called PTSD. Except, apparently, the military doesn't have the resources to deal with this and many other physical and mental problems. In WW2, many of our fighting men did not survive their injuries. Vietnam and today's battles have many, many more survivors than previous military actions. But that doesn't seem to have been countenanced by our military. So we're behind and somebody should be making sure the whole country knows that our injured military forces are not receiving the timely care that is the very least we, as Americans that did NOT face owe them!

  26. Santiago 1314, July 2, 2020 at 12:41 a.m.

    Ginger... Your Propagating OLD Story... "According to the JAMA study, average wait time in 2014 for a VA appointment in one of these specialties was 22.5 days, compared with 18.7 days for private-sector physicians. In 2017, the average VA wait time was 17.7 days, while the private-sector average was 29.8 days. That translates to a shorter average wait time of 12 days in VA, compared with the private sector." (VA website 1/18/19) ... Wonder who became Pres in 2017 and Fixed that... Also Vets are now Free to use Non-VA doctors, ..."The VA will pay for veterans to see non-VA doctors if they have to wait longer than 20 days or drive more than 30 minutes for primary or mental healthcare at a VA facility."(USA today 6/5/19) Wonder which President Signed that into law.???

  27. Wooden Ships replied, July 2, 2020 at 1:46 a.m.

    Called "Veterans Choice", President Trump. I'm retired Army 25 years and yes, historically, the government (swamp) has been slow to care for injured veterans, my era, agent orange and burn pits. All our institutions are comprised of individuals. They either have the courage/integrity to do what's right or not. It's much better than days of old. I too Ginger know all to well of Birmingham in the late 50's and 60's. Division has been created/designed and what we are witnessing is way beyond the incidents of racial injustices by a small, small percent of law enforcement. This pseudo intellectual faux shame demanding perfection of a nation with the greatest governmental documents created, is infantile  in its actions. Unfortunately, these infant minds are destroying a nation and willing to harm ANYONE that does t adhere to their marching orders. And, make no mistake, for many that's the goal. I've asked a few in the SA community, at what point will they be satisfied with discontinuing their protests, be it kneeling or non-peaceful protesting? What needs to take place? And, to date, there has been no answer from the wokesters. Are we sure this is still about some abhorrent law enforcement decisions? 

  28. Ric Fonseca replied, July 2, 2020 at 2:34 p.m.

    Folks, Ginger I admire your courage for your comments re: the flag, segregation, discrimination, etc; I agree with you and amazed at the amount of vitriol our commenters demonstrate - though I don't agree with them, I will defend their right to their free expression As an immigrant, veteran (US having served on an aircraft carrier and then the 4th and 7th Infantry Divisions I have visit a VA Hospital - several times - and endured the wait time, However, several months ago, I did need to visit the VA - 30 years after my first visits, to obtain some records, and see an orthopaedic specialist, and let me tell you that unless a Vet knows the ins-and-outs of visiting a Vet hospital, the wait was "painful" I had to wait three hours just to speak to an overworked and underpaid staff member, an interview that lasted only 25 minutes.I didn't see the ortho specialist due to the long appointment wait time.As for discrimination and segregation, having grown up in East Oakland, '50-'59, and attending Oakland schools, even when I was a Boy Scout-Explorer, I saw it and experienced it. My high school, was somewhat segregated, though we did have some very good and caring teachers, there were those that separated us Mexicanos and Black students from the rest of the "other student body" for the most part White. And I experienced this some more as a member of the ROTC program, I was on the drill team and the rifle team; I was a pretty good cadet, but when the time came for advance in the cadet ranks, I was the only one of my group that was even "promoted" to cadet 2nd Lt, as all my other amigos went higher up the cadet officer ranks.Our ROTC instructors were WWII Veterans, allbeit nice guys, but one had a mean southern streak, the other one was from the northeast coast and more "understanding.Lastly, in answer to WS above, when will the protesters discontinue marching? When we ALL literally and figuratively learn about our history in order to not repeat it.

  29. Wooden Ships replied, July 2, 2020 at 5:52 p.m.

    Ric, so what your saying is it will never end. Great answer. 

  30. Wooden Ships replied, July 2, 2020 at 6:38 p.m.

    Ginger, Ric, steeped in hatred, vitriol? You have demonstrated what the ultra left-progressives, have been doing when someone disagrees. You ascribe characterizations (such as rascist, ignorant, etc) towards people that have a different perspective. I don't harbor those feelings towards you. I hope neither of you are condoning the pillaging and the many innocent people harmed, including law enforcement. 

  31. Ginger Peeler, July 2, 2020 at 10:43 p.m.

    Ships, you're telling me that by my supporting your right to express an opinion (that I may not agree with) about something, that makes me as an "ultra left liberal"? Because I said I would fight for your right to speak up and express your opinion?  I'm sorry, but I really, REALLY, think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Ric, basically, said the same thing I said about supporting you. And you turn it around and say we're attacking you?  You infer that we support breaking in and pillaging businesses. That's incredibly offensive. Looters are not peaceful protesters, even though there have been people equating the two. The looters seem to be concentrating on higher end establishments. They're not protesters gone amok, they're thieves who've chosen their targets, striking when the attention is centered on protesters. What makes you think I would support looters?  In the years I've been posting, have I really given you cause to believe I support criminals??? Really? And you "hope" I am not condoning innocent people being harmed. Again, why would you even suggest that?  If a protester harms someone, arrest him/her. If a law enforcement individual uses excessive force and harms someone, arrest him/her. This much hate (and vitriol) from you because some women knelt in protest while the National Anthem was played? 

  32. Ken Fadner replied, July 3, 2020 at 9:50 a.m.

    I'm with you Ginger

  33. Wooden Ships replied, July 3, 2020 at 11:17 p.m.

    Ginger, Ric, I don't believe you condone lawlessness. My apologies. My frustration is with the athletic protests and the teaming wave it's initiated of America the ugly. There is a linkage from the kneeling of Kaepernick to what we are witnessing today. Ric, I wonder if you're familiar with the work of Jack Ellis, Chairman if the California Higher Education Association? Emiritous at the University of California Santa Cruz. A longitudinal study of political leanings, with not just professors, but administrators as well. A 50 year national review of how institutions have transitioned from a close to balanced employment to what we have today. Remember Cal Berkeley, during the 60's-70's, freedom of speech. See the difference today? 


    Anyway, as you two, who have dedicated much of your life to the beautiful game, I will not support kneelers with my viewing time. While the instances of mistreatment of any peoples at the hand of law enforcement is tragic, I believe it's not endimic. Reminds me of the VAR proponents, rid the game of injustice. Like life, it's not possible. I was hoping that each of you were reading between the lines of my comments regarding what we are seeing is the desire to topple this country, masked in BLM and protests. In wrapping up, two things, I don't recall in this thread hate or vitriol by posters and I wish each of you the best.

  34. R2 Dad, July 3, 2020 at 1:07 p.m.

    Having "hard conversations" by itself does not necessitate change. Sometimes lines harden even without acidic rhetoric. The narrative that espouses human nature bending towards improvement/harmony/perfection is a bad take as its not supported by history outside of the past 50 years: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/obama-right-side-of-history/420462/

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