Commentary
Lorne Donaldson on making history with Jamaica, the USWNT's early exit, and American youth soccer
- by Mike Woitalla @MikeWoitalla, Aug 18, 2023
With a part-time head coach, Jamaica was among the nine teams of the 32 at the 2023 Women's World Cup to go undefeated in group play. Coach Lorne Donaldson's day job is Executive Director of Coaching/President of youth club Real Colorado, whose alums include U.S. internationals Sophia Smith and Mallory (née Pugh) Swanson.
Donaldson has lived in the USA since leaving Jamaica in 1979, when he came to play for Denver’s Metropolitan State University. Girls did not play competitive soccer when Donaldson was growing up on the island and in 2008, the Jamaican federation cited a lack of funds for scrapping its women’s national team program.
Donaldson got involved with Jamaican women's soccer as U-17 head coach — and U-20 and full national team assistant — in 2015 during the program's revival thanks to the support of Cedella Marley, the daughter of reggae star Bob Marley. The Jamaican federation (JFA) had also enlisted Hue Menzies, the director of the Central Florida Kraze Krush who moved to the USA from Jamaica at age 16, as technical director. Menzies and Donaldson recruited dual nationals in the USA to boost Jamaica's women's program and it qualified for its first Women's World Cup, in 2019 in France, where Donaldson served as Menzies' assistant and Jamaica exited with three group-stage losses.
After Donaldson took over as head coach, Jamaica qualified for the 2023 Women's World Cup while finishing third to the winner USA and second-place Canada at the 2022 Concacaf W Championship.
This summer Down Under, Jamaica made history by: in its opening game earning its first point at a Women's World Cup with a scoreless tie against France; in its second game with its first win, 1-0, over Panama; and in its third game by knocking out Brazil with a 0-0 tie and reaching the knockout stage.
Before arriving in Australia, the Reggae Girlz released a statement expressing their "utmost disappointment" with the JFA, citing unpaid compensation, and poor accommodation, transportation and training conditions.
We asked Donaldson about Jamaica's historic World Cup, the USA's performance, and the era of American youth soccer since U.S. Soccer ended its Development Academy, including financial challenges.
SOCCER AMERICA: How was the 2023 Women’s World Cup for you?LORNE DONALDSON: It was fun, to say the least. It was good.
Very disappointed with Colombia game. [a 1-0 loss in the round of 16]. We thought we could have gotten more out of it, but we just didn't play well offensively.
But our players were very, very happy because everybody doubted them.
SA: What was the key to success and how did the performance compare to your pre-tournament expectations?
LORNE DONALDSON: Our expectations were different from everybody else. We expected to go in there and do some stuff that people didn't expect.
Looking at the teams we were playing, we knew to get to the second round we had to get a result in the first game — not losing the game.
SA: In the opener, you faced France, No. 5 in the FIFA World Rankings. [Jamaica came to the tournament at No. 43] …
LORNE DONALDSON: So our mindset from day one — because we played the least games going in of all the teams that made it to the World Cup — was to be well-organized defensively.
So we got ourself organized when had a 10-day camp in Jamaica from June 10 to June 21. We took some days off, and met up again in Amsterdam.
We had a couple players who weren't even playing club football. So the training sessions became very important to them.
SA: How important was it that about half your players play in European leagues?
LORNE DONALDSON: That was big. They set the tone in training.
We had young players — college players, high school players — and then we have the players who in play Europe.
Players like Drew Spence and goalkeeper Rebecca Spencer [both at Tottenham Hotspur] were like, “Hey, listen, we’re going to work hard to get something out of this training.”
Up top we have Khadija “Bunny” Shaw [Manchester City], and one of the things we had to make sure of was to defend from the front, not just from the back.
And we went with the confidence that we can get something out of the games. I don't think it was a surprise to our players that we did.
SA: Did you and the players get a sense during the World Cup of what the reaction was like in Jamaica?
LORNE DONALDSON: Yes. We heard about what was going on in Jamaica. Parties going on, early-morning parties. People were up watching games after the France game.
The reaction was unbelievable. It was an unbelievable feeling to me, because I know not a big part of Jamaican population embraces women's football.
The euphoria in Jamaica and among the diaspora all over the world came after the France game.
We couldn't believe that our Jamaican people were now so supportive of female football. It was a good feeling, and I still think it's still going on. People are still talking about it.
SA: Do you think that will have an impact as far as team being better the supported by the federation?
LORNE DONALDSON: Who knows, man? I mean we've expected it before. We said it might happen for the last World Cup. We said it when we went to the men’s World Cup.
But I think our government saw what happened and has embraced it. The brand is so big right now.
Maybe support will come from the diaspora, but I think it has a start in Jamaica. Maybe we'll get more support like what Cedella Marley has done for the women.
Support from people with an interest in the country and its football.
Jamaican-American defender Allyson Swaby, who scored the gamewinner against Panama, transferred from the NWSL's Angel City FC to AC Milan following the Reggae Girlz's 2023 Women's World Cup run.
SA: What’s in your national team coaching future? The USA is looking for a new women’s head coach. Is that something that you would consider?
LORNE DONALDSON: Everybody knows there's a million qualified coaches all over the world who can do the U.S. stuff.
I am just focused on Jamaica until my contract is up on the last day of September.
We have a chance to qualify for the Olympics. We play Canada in Jamaica on the 22nd of September and play them in Canada on the 26th.
Hopefully, we can turn around and make it to the Olympics.
I’m not sure if we're going to have a talk in Jamaica before that. Whatever happens after that, I am willing to listen.
SA: Were you surprised the USA exited so early from this summer’s World Cup?
LORNE DONALDSON: Yeah, I was surprised they exited a little early considering the caliber of players and coaching staff and technical staff and all the stuff that the U.S. has.
I think everybody was surprised.
But it's just one of those things. I mean, Germany exited early, Canada exited early. Maybe it's one of those things that some of the smaller teams are moving up.
In regards to the U.S., obviously I am sure the coaches and players were doing their best but sometimes stuff happens. Now you sit back and reflect on how did it happen?
We have a lot great players in this country. Not just good players, but great players.
SA: You’ve known Sophia Smith [age 22] since she arrived at Real Colorado at age 12. What did you think about her World Cup performance?
LORNE DONALDSON: I think it’s not just Sophie. It's an overall performance.
I don't think her World Cup was the greatest World Cup. She's disappointed. Everybody's disappointed.
Knowing Sophie, she's going to bounce back and she's going to lead this country to a World Cup. She's that type of person. I think most likely now she's over it. She’s moving on because that's a part of sports, right? Even for the best in the world, bad things happen.
SA: The USA has not performed well at the U-17 and U-20 Women’s World Cups while this World Cup revealed a correlation between youth world championship success and nations doing well at the senior level. Does the USA need to reflect on that?
LORNE DONALDSON: That's a good question because I have always said that we have the young players to do well, but we never seem to do well for whatever reason. I don't know if it's style of play or the selection process.
Look at Spain, they won last U-17 World Cups [2018-2022] and the U-20 World Cup [2022, and finished runner-up to Japan in 2018.]
I think whoever is in charge of youth soccer in this country, we have to take a serious look at it — from coaches to the players and everything. And come up with a system or something that will mold right into the senior team, because it has to be some kind of continuity, whether it's style of play or technical staffing or whatever it is.
It has to mesh together, the U-17, U-20s and the full national team. They all have to work hand in hand to try to figure it out.
I was always disappointed, because we [Real Colorado] always had kids who were playing on these U.S. youth teams and I could never understand why we can't be better.
SA: What do you think about the state of girls youth soccer in this new era since since U.S. Soccer’s Development Academy folded in 2020?
LORNE DONALDSON: In terms of player development, I think development can still be achieved. We have to teach the young players and look systematically as a country what we want to do.
If we need to produce better technical players or better tactical players — whatever we need to produce — the top clubs, the top coaches have to lend our expertise to some of this kind of stuff.
Once upon a time, we talked about, “we have the best athletes," but other countries have great athletes who can play soccer.
Maybe now we can stop talking about that and make sure that our athletes are also soccer players. Because I hate the words, ‘She's athletic’ or ‘He's athletic.’
I want to hear, “They're a great technical, tactical soccer player, and they happen to be very fast, or big, or strong or whatever.”
I just think we gotta now make sure that going forward they have the basics and fundamentals of the game. Trap the ball, pass the ball, and shoot the ball. We have to be good at that.
SA: My take on it watching the women’s teams of countries like Spain, Colombia or Portugal, once they started supporting girls soccer, their women's national teams played with the best attributes their countries are known for, which very much included high technical skills. Whereas in the USA, the overbearing coaching influence has come from the British and Northern Europeans, who traditionally haven't had ball skills as much of their soccer culture as South American or Southern European countries. …
LORNE DONALDSON: I think that could be a factor. The Brazilians are very technical. The Spanish are very technical.
We have to look at what kids are learning at a young age. Because here’s what’s going on:
We're spending a lot of time on coaching education, but there are a lot of great coaches out there who can teach young players, but they don’t have the time or money to go and take all these courses.
So they can't get into club system and work, even if they're great technical coaches. There's a lot of those coaches around, but they're not working as much as they used to be in the past.
And I think we're missing this aspect. A lot of time they’re from another country, whether they're Spanish or African or whatever, and they want to teach the technical aspect of the game.
I think a lot of these coaches, they're being weeded out by the system. We want people to be licensed, but there’s an over-emphasis on that stuff right now. And we have to look at that and see exactly where we want to go with it.
Are we going to lose by being not as technical as we need to be?
SA: That developing ball skills and soccer savvy is a better long-term youth soccer coaching approach than getting wins is a notion that’s been advocated for a long time now in the USA. But you think it’s still a problem?
LORNE DONALDSON: We need to get back to the pure fundamental technique — dribbling and doing that stuff with the ball and encourage it. I don't think we're encouraging it.
Everybody can't be that. I don't want my center back to be running with the ball 40 yards every time, but we gotta start encouraging that aspect of the game.
I'm out there watching games and I see a very skillful player, but we're not encouraging that part of their development.
SA: The U.S. player who had the best 2023 Women’s World Cup was Naomi Girma. Her earliest soccer experiences came playing pick-up style soccer in the Bay Area Ethiopian community. She joined elite club soccer relatively late and I would venture she transitioned smoothly and excelled thanks to the ball skills she developed in less formal soccer.
LORNE DONALDSON: To just go out and play a lot of soccer that is not that organized — she just developed her own instincts and skills. It shows she doesn’t play like the regular center backs that we have. She can hit it with both feet and she's very comfortable in all situations and she doesn't get rattled.
We need more of this type not coming through. We can’t ‘make it,’ but we can encourage it. We can decide, let's look for more of this kind of stuff.
SA: At Real Colorado, do you try to simulate the kind free play from which kids develop instincts and skills that are hard if not impossible to coach?
LORNE DONALDSON: Yeah, we try to encourage that, whether it’s futsal or sometimes telling the coaches, just let them play. Don’t even coach.
We believe in the freedom to let kid express themselves and we encourage them.
In Colorado, we don't the biggest population and a world of the best athletes. But we produce some decent players.
SA: Back to how the youth soccer landscape has changed in the past three years, one of the things I’ve been hearing is that there’s been spike in youth coaching pay …
LORNE DONALDSON: Yeah, it is a massive bump. We struggle with it right now that in Colorado. The price of coaching youth teams has gone up a lot.
There's so many of clubs, ECNL and Girls Academy. Clubs are saying, come over and we’ll give you 10 grand more or five grand more. We have clubs in our area that do that. We can't afford to do it.
It's more than double within the last two years. So you're paying a hundred percent more than what a coach had made in the last two or three years.
SA: There’s more competition between youth clubs than before?
LORNE DONALDSON: There's a lot of competition for players and if somebody coaches a team, and they have a good 2009 [birth-year team] or 2010s, another club approaches the coach and says, “I'm gonna pay you $15,000 more if you can move your team over to my club.”
It's disturbing to me. Your club spends time developing players, somebody offers the coach more, and all the kids are gone. To some clubs it happens to a lot.
At our club, under my stewardship, that's going to be accepted. If a kid wants to come over, that's fine. But we're not going to pay a coach to bring your team.
But that's going on a lot.
SA: We’re starting to see some elite girl players skipping college to go pro and the NWSL has created a U-18 entry mechanism to allow teams to directly sign teenagers to pro contracts, bypassing college as well as the draft. Can we expect a growing trend of girls lured to the pros at younger ages and what impact might that have?
LORNE DONALDSON: It's happening a lot. Actually in this present World Cup, European teams are waving the banner and said, come join us.
We have young Jamaica players that are hearing, “Hey, come join us. You don't need to go to college.”
Once that happened with the European clubs, the U.S. had to compete. As the international competition got stiffer, you knew NWSL clubs were going to go that way. And the U.S. is also basically saying the same thing: they don't think college is effective.
I happen to be different with that. I think college is still a good source, if we do it the right way. There's some great college coaches who are doing great stuff.
A lot of players all over the world still went to college and play pro. It’s going to come down to what a kid really needs.
But I see NWSL clubs right now — it's going on all over the USA — looking at 2010 players. You have 13-year-old players being scouted as we speak. And the NWSL will keep track of them for the next four or five years.
Is it good? Is it bad? It's good for competition. But is it good for the game? I don't know.
We'll see where that goes.
Photos: Alex Grimm-FIFA/FIFA via Getty Images, Aitor Alcalde-FIFA/FIFA via Getty Images, Brad Smith/ISI Photos, Real Colorado.
Congrats to Lorne Donaldson and the Reggae Girlz. They made a big splash onto the world soccer scene despite scant resources and underdog status. They knew what they had to do results wise yet still played with flair and technical excellence. Amen to Lorne's comments on the need for youth coaches to develop dribblers (comfortable on the ball under high pressure) as one of the key elements for the US to produce top players in the future.
Interesting comments made by Lorne, but I feel he's holding back to be politically correct.
He's coming from a backround, from a country that is no stranger to PICKUP soccer of which the great Alan 'Skill' Cole came from....But I find it very unusual of him to not even broach the subject of PICKUP soccer which he's a product of....HMMMM.
I agree with his point of seeking "CONTINUITY". Continuity of what? Style, Technique, Tactics????
What are our players WEAK at??? DUH!!! Could I be wrong if I say TECHNIQUE....That is the most important aspect dealing with youth development. The problem is that the coaches we rely on to teach our youth are usually WEAK in the technical dept. but are stronger in the tactical dept. which we don't need at this stage of development. The coaches we have are the opposite of what we NEED!..... Ones Who deal with the Technical development.....
So why are we producing licensed coaches from the USSF Coaching Academy who are stronger in tactical dept. of things rather than the Technical. This particular Trend or rather Continuity has been Wrong!!! all these years, but nothing has been done about it. We need to change towards a more emphasis on the Technical...... Where is Cindy Cone on all this???? I haven't hears a "peep" from her. Perhaps maybe she's busy making sure all her committees have equal gender representation.
One of the problems is talking about tactics is easy, showing with your feet how it is done and carried isn't and that's what made Cruyff such a great coach and teacher...The instructors at the USSF coaching are likewise hampered talking about skill but they ,instead, whip up a mean 'tactical' chart, teach you all the muscle structure in one's legs...
So the coaches basically teach skills is the standard garbage, exercise or drills, but mainly they are there for "Team" oriented aspects of the game...So ,ONE, the coaches are weak at skills and Two, their expertise, if you want to call it that, is more team oriented.....This is the problem youth are faced with in an environment that lacks PICKUP soccer....
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Lorne, simply states, " the basics and fundamentals of the game. Trap the ball, pass the ball, shoot the ball....have to good at that. Can you imagine how youth players are capable of even doing that? Those are the fundamentals!!! Next comes the many VARIOUS you can trap a ball, or the various ways of passing the ball and ofcourse various ways of shooting and then relate that the different situation. The FUNDAMENTALS are the most important, the next step is relating it to the various situations, which takes a coach with Creative abilities, AND YOU DON'T NEED A LICENSE FOR THAT to teach it......
An example of creative shooting ability, is when you're in the penalty box , or right outside the edge, the goal is about 45degrees to your left. The ball is punched out by the goalie, it takes a bounce, then volley applying the outside of your instep with the right foot, ,giving the ball a clockwise spin bending away from the goalie ,traveling to the near post. This is just example of a creative technical coach producing skills above the fundamental level. Horan applied a shot like that in the Sweden game, but missed and that is because she hit the ball more near the top of her instep.....As a creative these elements should be explained to her detail after the game to improve that shot of hers....was it ever???
There was an interview with Johnny Bosman who played the #10 position, right behind the #9 van Basten, in the 343 system at Ajax, in Cruyff's first year as coach. Bosman scored a goal with his right foot, it was a simple, but Cruyff took a 10min. discussion with Bosman why he should kick the ball with a certain part of the foot instead the spot he used....Bosman was amazed with Cruyff's technical to spend this much time on it....I don't expect coaches this intricate because Cruyff is an anomaly. But it does go to show the intracacies of the technical part of the game, THAT WE MISS HERE at whatever level......
I would suggest that we need a TECHNICAL expert to be placed with each national youth team in order to study the particular techniques/skills and issue a TECHNICAL report of all the weaknesses the players exhibited in the game. Our emphasis needs to be shifted toward improving the technical side of the game for that has long running benefits for our players. And ofcourse this Technical expert is not some rumdumb with A-license coming from the Coaching Academy. This will require FOREIGN expertise, former great players who don't need 'beep-beep' bras, or other cutesie technical toys, but who can SEE the deeper insights of the technical game.....
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Lorne, mentioned what I would find one of the most disgusting acts that is found in the Youth soccer....An association offering more money to a youth coach to come over with his succesful youth team.
To me a president or whoever runs that particular soccer association that offers this type of deal is just plain Trash... If I were a president and I found a youth coach who has a particular good skill in developing youth, I would offer him a higher salary to come but leave his team behind and work with a new team or just give him a function whereby he oversees player development. In the former case, which often happens, the leader of that association is not interested in player development but not only to bolster his ego but also his youth association with a winning team...it's all about winning which really doesn't help player development....
He also got on the topic of licensed coaches, which I don't have a high opinion of. To me the licensing system is one of control to protect the little fiefdom from unlicensed intruders. Cruyff had mentioned how much loss of real game knowledge has happened due to enforcement of having a coaching license.... So many professional players in Holland over the years have been lost to coaching/training because they don't have a license and thereby are unable to teach the PRACTICAL knowledge of the game to the youth....Instead the youth got a licensed rumdumb who lacks the practical knowledge....The youth don't need a coach with a license but someone who has a feel for the game, has played it and can show and demonstrate....
Ofcourse, you'll get the complaints from the peanut gallery that the youth need to learn tactics. Technique and Tactics are not mutual exclusive...Tactics follows Technique in very subtle ways. For example in street soccer kids in my days learned to play defense ,not by trying to tackle on concrete but through positioning off the ball, clogging up the passing lanes.
Today, We have positioning games lead by coaches that we as kids in my days were doing as part of street soccer. Everything we learned was immediately done playing soccer. We learned the value of a give and go on the street by approaching the opponent, pass the ball against the curb or wall and receive it back...Speed of play was already a factor, one you always played against older players or better players and two, the surface was concrete. This is why when Cruyff was coach, Ajax invited all kids of the city to come and try out in the parking lot of the stadium which was concrete....
Thank you SA and Mike Woitalla for bringing coach Dondaldson to our attention and also for the excellent questions posed - which elicited from coach Donaldson some interesting and though provoking responses. Donaldson is unique coach, a guy that can speak to Jamaica, and the USA, men's and women's sides. He's the ultimate inside outsider. I knew Frank S. would be getting his bat out for this. Right on point. We need a Develop a platform that facilitates free play for our U-littles focused at the state level with 1/2 sized or smaller pitches/courts. Basketball court is fine. Recent SA article about 'My Play' by Maryland State Youth Soccer (MSYSA) a USYS affiliate - good reference point. Expandable in-state and extensible to other states. I really like what they are doing in Maryland - leveraging schools - give a service to the students - get access to school grounds. Clever. Creative. Innovative. We also need to create or update licensing training for coaches that train players before HS, up to U13, so that is the focus of coaching up to HS. Create quantitative measures for the success of this program - so USSF can be sure - the desired outcome - players that are more technical before U14. When you think about coach Donaldson's comments about coach salaries and licensing, he is indirectly saying, the license program, in it's current guise, is failing youth soccer. It is inflating coach salaries, without adding to their ability to effect technical skills in their pupils. It is creating havoc in the youth soccer landscape. Remember when in the same year, around 2018, USSF added license requirement for DA academies - at the same time they added girls academy increasing demand - and only shortly after - they stopped accepting NSCAA (now United Soccer Coaches) equivalents in 2015, without adding any coach licensing course capacity. Every hear of supply and demand? My mate just finished his USSF 'B' License - he played professional until 35 - the 'B' added zero to his technical training skills. It was 100% focused on tactical. He coaches U-littles - from U12 to U16. What his players need - is not tactical but more technical training. He could have the other coaches - none of whom had a pro career - to be better technical coaches by himself. Wasted chance. Yes, we need licensing, but we should not let it strangle us, we need to hold those running licensing accountable for meeting the end users, the players needs, they should be learning to master the ball to U14. Not happening. This is clear. Fix it. Make it happen. Not rocket science. If the licensing system does not currently work - stop requiring USSF licenses below U14 until the system is back on track. Open the spigot. There are many, many coaches that can teach technical skills to our U-littles here - that are not getting the opportunity. Make it happen!
for a dated (2019), but still, almost 5 years later, relevant, look at USA coach licensing history look-up this -> Ranting Soccer Dad "Coaching education through the years". I believe Ranting Soccer Dad is a (very astute) SA contributor.
Humble... Could you be more Specific on a Article Title or Date on that Article..
I tried the Search Bar, but it was Too Broad.
A couple of years ago I saw my former next-door neighbor's daughter play for her elite club team. It was very easy to watch (to say the least). The kids all had strong ball skills. If this is the future-the USA will do just fine.
Congratulations Lorn. Awesome to see one of us have such awesome success! Keep it up! Rooting for you!!
Lou Sagastume
Donaldson as next USWNT coach?
After reading various posts and suggestions made like by Ben suggestion Donaldson as coach for USWNT , or the dutch coach of England to coach, I've come to a stark conclusion, to follow my gut feeling. Definitely we are tired of the carousel of coaches taking over our NT men or women and therefore we'll take anyone that 'sounds' better than what we had in the past....
Lorne, for example, has stated what I've been expounding for a long time as far as player development goes ,and yes, he likewise sees the coaching license as restriction and a hindrance to better soccer development. But here is the issue that I have about him and coaching, which is, I DON'T KNOW A DAMN THING ABOUT HIM, as a coach. Yeah, sure ,I guess he did a good job with Jamaica under the circumstances, although I never Jamaica play and I should do that today...
But, here is my issue, they are all trained and taught by the USSF coaching academy of which I don't have a high opinion of. You see, I WANT TO SEE CHANGE ,CREATIVE coaching, not the same ole, same ole, standard 'soap', that is followed by every one of these coaches
I want to see an interview by some American soccer journalist asking him INSIGHTFUL QUESTIONS about the current American women's team, what he sees as weaknesses, or what went wrong, what he should change, WHAT ARE HIS IDEAS , or NEW PROPOSALS/ SUGGESTIONS in the playing, what will be more his focus. If he says will change so and so or move her up so and so and put this player back after her injury, BLAH, BLAH ,BLAH, etc. THAT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME.
I WANT TO KNOW HIS MANNER OF PLAY. How will he conduct what's new in the building up from the back, will it be the same ole' way, centerbacks passing back and forth, square, with their finger up their nose, accomplishing nothing, other than kicking it long upfield. Will we add an attacking option by having a centerback(s) able to play a Beckenbauer role ,moving the ball up to midfield, will the passing in the backfield be more crisp.
Will the role of the centerbacks have any change to further improve our offense. What will the role our wing attacks be or rather what role will wings specifically be used for....
I will stop here, for I don't want to get into the weeds with this , technically/ tactically speaking. I want to hear new ideas expressed about he will bring any change to the process of how the US team plays.... Often when I read comments in interviews by players and coaches, I can tell right away if he knows his stuff, but unfortunately our Soccer Press , in a general sense, lack that ability in creating a better picture of what a coach knows...
Agree, Frank. I threw Donaldson's name out there because he has extensive experience developing players. Even when someone is chosen for a national team, development of the player never stops, as you know well. Continued development is the key to both personal and team progress,
Ben, I understand, he definitely should be considered. Realize even though he has experience with developing players the aims and goals are different at the National Team level it's no longer about developing players.
I can't wait for tomorrows game for the styles are so different between the two teams...
Frank, the way I put is that people are talking about quantitative changes instead of qualitative changes. In other words they are talking about doing the same thing again, only more of it. That isn't real change and no really significant improvement will come of it.
When the rest of the world is making qualitative changes, we are going to become less competitive.
Bob, yeah, sure looks like it...